If Dawn Riley isn't a pioneer, she's damn close. Along with the likes of Betsy Allison and JJ Isler, she helped usher in a new era of woman's sailing: participation in the big global events, a higher level of recognition and involvement, and a new respect for women in the sport of sailing. Yet this has not come without some controversy. Questions about gender-favoritism, ability, competitiveness, and overexposure have somewhat clouded the otherwise rosy picture. We thought it a good time to get caught up with Dawn, and to fire her some questions. Apparently, so did many readers, as we received a lot of them, many of which we have included. Enjoy.

Photos by Tom Zinn, www.adrenalinimages.com


First of all, get us up to speed with what you are doing these days.

DR
I am just a little bit busy.:-)

America True is not competing in America's Cup 2003. It became clear very early in this cycle that there wasn't going to be a place for a grass -roots America's Cup team.

Currently, America True is 100% dedicated to providing youth with the opportunity to benefit from sailing and its inherent life lessons. This means we are running our 'True Youth Days' nationwide, a Summer Sailing Program on a lake in San Francisco as well as the Tall Ship Semester at Sea program. All of these programs are focused on getting new kids into sailing. A lot of time these are at-risk kids that never imagined that they would be on a boat.

In my spare time and along the same theme, I will be starting my term as the President of the Women's Sports Foundation at the end of this year. The WSF works to guarantee equal access to participation for women and girls in sports. Did you know that if a girl plays sports she is more likely to graduate from high school, get better grades and is less likely to become pregnant before she chooses, use alcohol and drugs and be less likely to develop diseases like breast cancer? Did you also know that there is a group in the Bush administration that is trying to eliminate equal opportunity for boys and girls in sports and education?

On the racing side - the Yngling sailing is on hold for me. Joan Touchette took my spot with Hannah Swett and Melissa Purdy and I am available for slotting in when a team is missing someone from time to time but not as a permanent member of a team.

Finally, I am the Team Manager for the K-Yachting team for the 2006 America's Cup. We are translating the America True formula into French. We have been campaigning two ILC 45's with a mixed US/French/men/women team and having good results. I do have a short window where I can go back to the US but I don't foresee that happening at this point.


Will there be another America's Cup in your future? And what role would you prefer to have in it?

DR
See above. Ideally I would love to sail and only sail but realistically I have experience in the management and I know myself... I would give my two cents and end up right back in the same place... organizing and sailing. It is kind of like - when I really want to stop sailing and have a real life on shore with a garden etc... and then I 'get real'.


During the last AC, you took a fair amount of criticism for allegedly "throwing" a race to keep Young America out. There were all kinds of bitching, some of which was that you let a French team in while keeping an American one out. In retrospect, how do you view the incident and the criticism, and would you do it again?

DR
We didn't throw a race. We elected to not sail the last race that our weather forecast showed would be delayed at least 3 days (and it was) so that we could get a head start on modifications on the keel. We also were able to give the team a few days off.... And we needed those days. Remember we were a very small team.

And in retrospect I would do it again ... although we would probably make different modifications than we did.

We also would not have been in the position to alter Young America's qualification for the Semi's if they had sailed better, had beaten us, or if another American team hadn't thrown an earlier race against the French.... And by the way members of that team did go to the TAB and bet against themselves and made a fair amount of money in the process.


With all the money being thrown about this time around, if you were to have been in the position of, say, Russell Coutts, how would you have structured your campaign, and who would you chose as sailors, designers, sailmakers and the like?

DR
I don't think I can go into the details of the couple of hundred people that I would hire but I tend to look for the people that have talent combined with a strong desire to perform to their absolute best.... Regardless of the publicity or the money.


Who do you think will win this time?

DR
Alinghi


This year's Volvo has seen a very uncompetitive women's effort put forth by AmerToo. Some have said that this makes it completely obvious that women simply cannot compete on equal footing with men in this sport. Your comments on Atoo, and what it might mean in the big picture?

DR
AmerSportToo was the least prepared boat. Their performance had a LOT more to do with that than anything else. What compounded the problem was that when you are trying to put together an all women's team - especially an offshore all women's team you are working from a relatively small talent pool and with no time to train AND inferior equipment in terms of sails etc. you are going to have a poor showing.

There was some idiot on Scuttlebutt who said that the girls should stop whining about not getting the same equipment because the guys were the ones that were out looking for sponsorship and that they were the ones that did all of the hard work.

I really don't like people that give their opinions slamming someone without knowing what they are talking about. Lisa and Katie were out pounding the pavement looking for sponsorship before the AC even finished. They put together packages spent a lot of their own money and time but were turned down...

One has to wonder if this is a downward spiral started with EF - sponsors don't think 'girls teams' will win and they generally don't want to sponsor a team that won't win. But a guys team sells a package deal with - "we are the ones who are going to win because we are good and we are MEN and we want a two boat program... how about we give the second boat to the girls and don't spend too much money on the sails or the salaries for them but promote the hell out of them so you get really good returns on the sponsorship?" This sets up a self fulfilling prophesy. Did you know that with EF the women's team had more media impressions than the guys ---- and the guys WON the race!

BTW: Who is going to watch Grant run up the street naked after AmerSport Too beat One in the last leg? (that was written before the last leg J and evidently he got to put a pineapple in his pants instead)


In your estimation, is sexism still something you encounter, and how much of a factor is it for you and other women?

DR
Yes and it is getting much better at the entry level and at the club level but as soon as dollars - i.e. paying jobs come into play it is much harder for the women.


How do you improve your skills as a sailor?

DR
Sail and read and visualize. I think the visualization is the most under utilized technique for sailors. This is a sport like many others and especially for the crew positions it is so valuable to know what you are going to do in each situation before it happens. For the back of the boat I visualize coming from behind or defending a lead or steering over waves.


This is a broad (no sexist pun intended) stroke, but give us your thoughts on the state of the sport.

DR
I don't see it as dying as some people are saying recently. I see it as changing. The one designs are seeing their biggest and longest stable period for quite a while. Match racing and developmental rating classes are still huge in Europe. I predict that sometime in the next 5 years we will see a different rating rule come into play and the desire to have the coolest hottest newest trickiest boat will take over some owners and we will have another race for technology… and all of those amateurs from the Farr 40 will suddenly become pros.


We have readers who have questions for you. Get ready! From Cunning Stunt: Does she think she would have the opportunities that she has had in sailing, if she were a guy? What part of her resume justifies her place as one of the leaders of American yacht racing?

DR
Interesting Name - I would have had a lot more opportunities if I was a guy but I tried to not let that stop me. I ended up taking a bit of a different path than a guy would have. Instead of relying on getting paid to just sail I developed as many ancillary skills as possible, engine repair, diving, sandwich making, sponsorship solicitation, public relations etc. etc. This has meant that my time on the water comes in chunks and I have to work my ass off in between.

You want my resume? 1992 A3 winner of America's Cup, 1989 Maiden 2nd overall Class D WRTWR, 1995 Team Capt A3 Challenger Series, Santa Maria Cup 2 time winner, Women's Match Racing World Champ 1992, Ranked 12 on Open MR Circuit 1993, Top 25 Women's MR Circuit for about the past 10 years, 1993-94 WRTWR just finished the 33000 race. AC 2000, Lots of Key West, SORC Mackinac, Fastnet, Sydney Hobart, IC45 etc. etc. podium finishes.

What makes me a leader is that I am trying to change the status quo. I go sailing because I love it, but our foundations work to make sure that others have the chance to enjoy our sport too.


From Olson Kahuna: Has the state of Ocean racing gotten so physical that an ALL women's team is not a viable contender? Does Tracy's all woman Jules Verne stand a chance? She was all for a mixed team for the AC, does she see that as a viable option for the VOR?

DR
Ocean Racing is and has always been physical but the most valuable attribute is experience. Tracy's Jules Verne team stands just as good a chance although I would choose to sail with a mixed team for the psychological benefits as well as some physical benefits - get you MIND - OUT of the gutter!


Jefff B asks: I think this one is on everyone's mind: What's her opinion on why the ATOO girls have been off the pace. With comparable prep and sail development time would they have been in the hunt better? Does a future boat need to be designed or laid out ergonomically different for an all female team to be competitive? That's not meant to be a sexist question - just thinking of the physical differences as relates to the sail controls and the need to "manhandle" big sails in the southern ocean.

DR
SEE ABOVE


Stinky wants to know: Can she give a non-politically correct answer about the state of the Olympics including the selection of the Yngling. If the Yngling and others were not good choices, what would be?

DR
I am not that worried about being politically correct. I have to admit that this time around was my 1st true experience in training for an Olympic Campaign. Unfortunately it was not the first time dealing with ISAF and specifically Paul Henderson. I can't go into that without spending hours here and giving myself an ulcer other than to say that ISAF had already decided that the medal would be match racing and the boat was the only thing that was up for discussion. Paul copied documents to make it look like they were faxed together and threatened the other countries with false information and we ended up with fleet racing and the Yngling.

The Yngling is not a good boat. It is not exciting. It is not even that tactical as the boat takes up more than it's fair share of ocean so you basically have to pick one side or the other and hope that you picked correctly and go all the way. Very seldom does someone win by sailing up the middle. It is also uncomfortable for the crew and I think you may see the teams go back to hiking because the hobbles don't allow the crew to participate in the strategy at all. To give you an idea of how small the boats are. My good friend Renee Mehl has a Vangard 15 and when I helped her move it to her house I realized that there is a lot more room in that boat than in a Yngling. It is designed to be a training boat for kids --- not a racing boat for women!


Rob wants to know: Please ask her what differences she notices between men and woman sailors.

DR
Gee I don't know - I think the women sailors are more likely to be happy to be given the privilege where sometimes guys - especially when they are young - have a cocky attitude but the experienced sailors soon knock that out of them. The sailor who listens and learns and works as a team becomes the best sailor.


Michelle R asks: Ask her how good it felt the last time she went head to head with Dennis Conner and beat his boys during the Louis Vuitton semi-finals. Ask her about her plans for the 2006 America's Cup if an American wins this time, or if a European wins this time, or if New Zealand retains the Cup.

DR
It felt good to win as either way this was our last race for 2000. I honestly wasn't thinking about the race in 1995. We went out to win - mostly for pride but also because we were not happy with the way S&S had stalled a small repair in order to postpone their race against us. We protested but because of the way the rules are we couldn't take pictures or set up video to prove our case and they jury believed the old salts over us.

So after we won convincingly on the water, the other women on board reminded me that this was like 1995 but reversed. Chris Coffin had organized an end of campaign party for us - win or loose. We invited everyone and it was huge. Unfortunately I was so exhausted after 5 years of hard work that I fell asleep in a spinnaker in the sail loft at about 10pm and slept soundly until 7am. Everyone else says they had a great time!

For 2006 I am consulting with the K-Yachting team which at this point is based in France. If I have an option for a US team I can consider it but since it didn't happen this time around I am not holding my breath. I just have a gut feeling that the cup is going to go to Europe that would be awesome for the event but if it goes to the US San Francisco Bay would make the sailing short course and hard core - especially for the front of the boat.


From Sue: Does she see any significant change in the "old boy network" or is it still business as usual in regard with women on boats in positions other than Backstay Bettie or Galley Wench?

DR
I have heard of Galley Wenches but the only Backstay Bettie I have seen is on our dock here in Sausalito where there is a guy who sails with a blow up doll kitted out in full nautical gear tied to his backstay :-)

  • Good news is yes I see change in the old boy network. The top echelons it is still fully in force but slowly but surely we are making changes from the bottom up. Indicators of progress I have observed over the past 15 years;
  • Women as commodores, hell women allowed into clubs, Annapolis Wednesday night races where there are women on almost every boat and I would say at least 40% of the sailors are women
  • Studies that show that 46% of all sailors are women
  • Recently a woman came up to me and told me that she divorced her husband because he decided he didn't like sailing after they were married
  • Young girls don't understand the concept that "boys sailed without girls."

We still have work to do so that the women who get into sailing have long careers - the paying jobs are harder to get and women are less likely to be paid enough to call it a career - but it will happen. Now the next hurdle is to get some diversity into our sport!


Sr. Chief wants to know: Is she compensated as well as her male counterparts, and why did she not do the VOR?

DR
No, not now and I don't know if it ever will be the case but I need to say that I am not motivated by $ but by sailing and the people I get to spend time with.... Of course in 30 years I will be kicking myself for not being able to have a retirement account. I don't have dollars but I have one hell of a lifestyle.

I am not in the VOR this time around because it wasn't a priority for me personally. I also have developed an allergy to the preservatives in freeze dried food.


30 Man asks: Which kind of sailing was more rewarding for her: circumnavigations or America's Cup. I realize that her AC participation broke down so many barriers, but which one did she find to be the best 'life experience'.

DR
The 1st of each was amazing. Overall I like the 'life style' of the Cup better because you can get away most nights and reflect and decompress and learn. But I am SO glad that I was able to sail around the world twice!


Sportboat asks: Why did the America True ignore Ocean Planet's (Made in America) requests for support? Why is America True involved with the Sierra 26?

DR
I am not sure where this information came from. We had a lot of meetings with Ocean Planet, spent many days working with them on their positioning and marketing. Offered to carry their gear in our retail store and basically were completely open with all of our experience and knowledge. Right now one of our team members Ashley Perrin is on her way to Charleston to work on the boat and is using her considerable talent as well as experience gained here at AT to redesign their web page. Other than financing their team there is not much else we could have done.

We try to help just about anyone who calls or stops by. I would say that about 20% of our time is spent just being a sounding board or 'answer people' and as a nonprofit foundation operating on a shoestring budget this is a big non-revenue generating activity.


And finally, the lovely Yachtwoman asks: Ask her how much being on board Maiden helped further her sailing career. Does she believe she would have had the same opportunities she has now without being associated with the boat or Tracey Edwards?

DR
Tracy (note spelling because she doesn't like the 'e' in there) Edwards determined efforts gave me huge opportunities. There is no doubt about that. I think the biggest thing that I got out of it was the knowledge that there were other women out there with my same goals. Before that race I would hardly ever see other women participating at the top of the game in big boats and thought that I was one of the only ones. It gave me the confidence that I wasn't a freak and that there must be other women where we came from.

I also learned a lot by listening to and watching the other women on board, their thoughts, leadership capabilities, communication skills etc. etc. Remember I was the only American so all of the sudden I was learning about other countries and their sailing programs and general points of view. I also learned a fair amount from Tracy in terms of leadership. You don't always have to be liked to get the job done but ultimately it is your responsibility to lead and succeed.


Thanks Dawn!

DR
Thank you!